Backlash II: More Tales Told by Hunters, Fishermen and Other Damned Liars


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Far From the Madding Crowd

When your management response to illegal mortality is to turn around and do the job of this group for them i. In a paper my colleagues and I published a few years ago, we gave the following warning which I still view as relevant:. The lesson is that managers often hear from their most vocal critics or those most involved in particular wildlife issues. However, I worry about wildlife management objectives will be set in the future…and the extent to which they will be driven by a vocal minority.

When wolves are delisted in the Great Lakes soon I hope , we will get to put this theory to a test of sorts. Once federal protections are removed, the unnamed, uncaught poachers will be become vocal stakeholders, bending the ear of the state agencies to their ends. Your collared wolves will still be shot, the only difference is that it will be legal. What will happen when they are delisted remains to be seen, but we eradicated them before when there were far fewer people, fewer roads, less reliable ballistics, optics were in their infancy, and agency trappers road horses instead of helicopter gunships.

The fundamental and unanswered question is: Potatoes, white bread and rice though for me, rice is the most difficult. Nothing beats freshly prepared veggies in my opinion! Collared wolves being shot in Wisconsin and Michigan is bad.


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For every collared wolf killed, one must wonder how many non collared wolves are SSS. Every blue moon someone gets caught, but not often enough. There has got to be someone crunching numbers in terms of the cost of deer due to agricultural Damage and collisions with autos now and prior to wolf numbers increasing. Back to the SSS. In my opinion, it was alive and well in the NRM states prior to wolf reintroduction. One of the reasons dispersers from Canada were never able to attain viability in Wyoming or Idaho.

I know in MN. The gathering storm in Great Lakes wolf delisting is the USFWS insistence in claiming that lupus and lycaon be considered as distinct and separate species, which has been refuted by some very recent research using the SNP genotyping microarray.


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  • USFWS was taken to task over this issue in the NE region during the recent public comment period, and this controversy will no doubt provide plenty of fodder for the next anti-delisting lawsuit. Why do you all believe that our current population of wolves in the Northern Rockies are still persecuted and endangered? Those wolves do have one thing in common with dogs, they will breed abundantly. No, these wolves should not be persecuted like they were in the past, and neither should we continue to condemn the people that did the persecution.

    Times change, and values change. Wolves are predators, and humans are predators. Are those ranchers any different from the Native Americans that your ancestors the settlers, and the U. Government drove off the land? So now, should we repeat history? Drive the ranchers and government managers off the land so you can hold the land for a higher and better use? For recreational freedom among protected populations of wolves, grizzly bears and feral horses? What if your wives, children and livestock were camping out there with you in the same situation, subject to the untamed, uncontrolled environment of an unmanaged Rocky Mtn.

    When will the cycle of egotism and predjudice and hatred stop? Instead of condemnation of everyone that you think is evil or otherwise might disagree with you, try to find solutions so that there is a balance of all lifeforms and cultures in the Rocky Mtn. Maybe then all of us govt. I think that people here want there to adequate regulatory mechanisms to protect them once they become delisted. I know, as a BLM employee, you think it is your job to protect ranchers from the evil, communist, Nazi environmentalists and ensure that they never have to bother with meeting Standards for Rangeland Health SRH but that is not the purpose of the BLM.

    There is never a circumstance that the BLM can find to reduce grazing. That happens, even when the actual use is far below the permitted AUMs. Not that this situation is what is sought, but how in the hell did Native Americans ever survive? Inquiring minds want to know.

    As do most, if not all species, who are trying to make their way around this over populated, human dominated world, they now live in…….. Removing the protective slime from more than half a fish must be just like gut shooting a wolf. Anyway back to work. Bob Fanning, candidate for Montana Governor.

    Jon, you do not have a vote in the State of Montana, so why not ask your candidate questions that would affect your well being. We the people of Montana will elect our new governor without the help of a certain Maine resident. I do fear what will happen if a Republican gets elected governor as the Democrats have no real candidate now. I am afraid of the stream access law and the privatization of wildlife.

    There are those who want to privatize everything. We need to demonstrate that the voters are able and will over turn laws that are going effect them. I have mentioned that the hook and bullet crowd needs to be ready with petitions immediately to stop any law poorly written law that effects access, land purchases or ownership of wildlife before it can become effective.

    Isis not write that the proliferation of wolves in MN was a non issue, but the panty waste excuses of western states interms of their wolf population, fewer wolves, larger area and smaller human population added together create an hysteria that brings to mind all the fairy tales associated with wolves! Makes one want to take a purgative. Similarly reading news releases from the Center for Biological Diversity written by Michael Robinson is an effective purgative for me, especially when he quotes himself with some pretty much over the top statements.

    There are many reasonable people on this blog who genuinely care about the GYE, about wolves and grizzlies, and about wildlife in general. Many are very knowledgeable and interesting. There are also many here who use this site as a safe place to vent their rage and hostility towards the world or to act out. Some are gay, some are vegan, some have gender identity issues and have never even been in the outdoors let alone to the GYE.

    I believe their posting here has nothing to do with the real world. When I first started reading this blog, there was a celebration going on because a grizzly had attacked and killed a man and mauled his son. All sorts of fun and derision was being poked at these people because they were hunters and had been hunting when the attack took place. You regularly hear people on this blog advocate murder of hunters or anti-wolf people.

    When the wolf hunting started a couple of years ago, a woman was on here inviting people to her blog where she would reveal the names, phone numbers, and addresses of people who had legally killed wolves. These extreme people are in the minority but they are a very vocal minority who are obsessed with this issue. You will never win with them. It is not about reality to them. They will insult you and frustrate you when you finally get fed up and leave, they will have considered it a victory.

    Meanwhile, the state of conservation and wildlife protection in the US is hitting an all time low. Regarding your last response specific to my last post. You are absolutely right. Its seems to me though that those extremists actually own and run this blog site. There is no reason to even try to discuss any issues with them. This site is here only for one thing. To promote their views and their ideology, and woe be it to you if you have a different opinion. This will forever be my last post here.

    I will not be back. I can hear them cheering now….. Do you think they will even allow this message to post? And does it really matter……..???? Best wishes to you all. Having someone disagree with you on a blog does not equal persecution. You can criticize my posts all you want- but I advocate for wildlife conservation to put wildlife and their welfare first- before hunters, trappers, and ranchers. Unfortunately the exact opposite is happening…. Sometimes I wonder how diffferent the policies would be in the west if lets say Raul Grihalva was appointed Sec of the Interior instead of the rancher that occupies that position now.

    Do you really believe that? A few weeks ago I posted a link to a hunting forum where hunters were talking about running over coyote pups. They think this is normal behavior. There are states that have the opinion that certain wildlife has no value as if they have the right to make that judgement. Is it considered normal and ethical behavior for a hunter to want to kill a coyote pup or run them over?

    Where is the respect for wildlife from these people? All they seem concerned with is killing wild creatures for ridiculous reasons. Absolutely not — who is saying this is normal and ethical? Do you know any hunters who would consider it so? Or do you search out statements by a few depraved individuals on Internet forums and use them as a broad brush to condemn hunters in general? There are these thrill killers out in the woods wreaking havoc on anything that moves…..

    Unfortunately, the hunters that are posting are all too often advocating these kinds of things. Jon and William like many wildlife managers are confused—believing that the vocal minority is representative of the silent majority.

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    I would like to see that article, too. A black bear is easy to kill. If one shot did not killed the bear, then the second or third shot would be lethal. Been there and done it many times, I love to hunt bears but have no interest in shooting another one. There is more to the story as there is to all stories.

    Do not believe everything you read. Elk- the story is up- took me three tries… thanks Paul for posting the story also. The story is pretty clear elk. This is what some people do for pleasure- pretty sadistic if you ask me. And to go along with the coyote is vermin theme, this form of hunter entitlement also uses coyotes and foxes for bait called penning in probably 10 states…..

    All supported by generally Republican legislatures. Afterall, coyote are deer killing vermin to them and any good coyote is a dead coyote to them. As you can see in those pics, all 4 of those bears are fairly small with one weighing in at just 47 pounds and being albino. What are you talking about? Now anytime hunter entitlement is questioned by people that are horrified by these activities they are labeled antis or greenies or marginalized as liberals.

    I read that article. Think about it would a owner of a pack of hounds allow them to attack a wounded bear that had 11 arrows shot into it. The protruding board heads would slice up kill the dogs or the vet fees would kill the dog owner. If it was a small bear it would be dead with eleven arrows before it fell out of the tree. That is check station hear say and nothing more.

    It takes 4 points to draw a black bear license in Wisconsin and the bear would not be thrown into the garbage after the hunter spent 4 years trying to draw a bear tag. I found it interesting Elk how you talked about vet fees, injured dogs, and never once considered that the story is true or how unethical the whole situation is. Hounding is completely unethical. Do you think the dogs know if the bear is too small or not? I questioned your perception of hunting and you tripped all over yourself searching out the most depraved example of unethical hunting practices you could find, and then you try to present this as the norm.

    I have seen thousands of Coyotes in my lifetime in the wild. Of the thousands that I have seen I do not think that person driving a truck could run over a coyote. It may have been done once or twice, but it is not a common method of hunting coyotes in the west. Trucks are to expensive. In these places, it is the Norm to hate and despise wolves and I would not be shocked if most hunters in these 3 states want wolves eradicated. Why would anyone even think of doing something like that? There is a difference between what the law allows and ethics.

    The article about hunting with dogs in Wisconsin mentioned that if Wisconsin was a true democracy then bear hunting with hounds would be illegal. The anti hound hunters should initiate a voter initiative and restrict hound hunting. In Montana several years ago on organization called Footloose tried to ban trapping on public land. There drafted a voter initiative, presented it to the Secretary of State, and the initiative was approved. Footloose attempted to obtain the needed signatures on the petition, they were unable to obtain the signatures to put their initiative on the ballot.

    There are people in Montana who think that trapping is unethical and wrong. State law allows trapping, they had there chance to use the democratic process to change the law and it failed. The public did not want the law changed. Each and everyone has there ethics, each ones ethics differs, but ethics are not law.

    Footloose is going to try again in the next election and I wish them luck using the democratic process. It seems neither side really wants to hear what the other is saying because they are too busy condemning them. If you like wolves or feel they have a place in the environment, you will be called that and worse. This is a culture war we are in. But see, the problem is people get too busy calling names. It happens both ways. Just because he hunts. They even carry their rants, unjustly to individuals whom they barely know and only by their posts on this forum in a constant effort to discredit otherwise substantive comments.

    What is hunting today? Is hound hunting hunting? Is canned hunting hunting? Fair chase is an afterthought that falls on deaf ears or is conveniently ignored. If you lived in Wisconsin would you enjoy listening to an injured bear crying in the woods all night? These people will face a backlash- it is coming. This is exactly the kind of statement that continuously puts you at serious odds with many who post here. Your comments on this thread are utterly preposterous. You might consider moderating your tone and sticking around? PointsWest, you have certainly vented on this blog and done your share of name-calling.

    Then you assert that some posters on this blog are gay or vegan. And you had a good time giving the detailed report of your sadistic running coyotes over with a snowmobile, so you could shoot them in the head with your pistol. Well…I am not going to start psychoanalyzing people again, but I get it from reading the comments that A FEW people make. I never said it was true of everyone. Many have stated very explicitly that the were vegan. For every person I have scared away, the rabid name-calling, murder advocating animal-righteous have scared away It has nothing to do with these issues anyway.

    It sounds more like you are painting the readers of this blog with a broad brush containing your own preconceived notions than anything else. I am in the conservation community. I said that only a few who post here might be gay. And I have no problem with that except that some are very irrational and this is a purely symbolic issue with some of them not all.

    I never implied such. There is an undeniable connection between the animal-righteous and the gays. Certainly not in my experience. They are more worried about maintaining what little rights they have to keep a job or live where they want. How many folks like me read this blog and never post? If you have relevant experience and have been offended here, I would ask that you please consider the people like me who value your opinions and stand to lose with one less view point to consider.

    Obviously none have an obligation to educate folks like me, but I can promise you the cause is better for it. Not only do I get a lot of good information here, I get pointed in good directions to further my education. A blog is never going to be perfect for every person who posts. People will get offended from time to time, there will be comments you think are silly, ignorant, insulting, or irrelevant to some degree even with moderation.

    In terms of wolf delisting and management, whether in the GL states or NRM states, sound biological management that appeals to the constituents in those states, a very vocal minority. It just does not make sense to kill wolves just to drive the population down to some arbitrary number. Would it not make more sense to: Folks who hunt bear, cougar, or raccoons with dogs, sorry folks, nature has an equalizer.

    You take yor own chances. Please allow me to add, if it is to be a wolf culling season call it as such. Sell out in terms of wolf management. Wisconsin and Michigan, depends on how the general public is mobilized. Minnesota, I have hope when the time comes they will get it correct, and use science rather than loud mouth philosophy. You are so right when you write the 3S crowd shooting of collared wolves does more damage to their cause than good my play on yor words but they are too dense to understand. Studies about wolf pack dynamics, and the effect or not on these very same scoundrels, are in play.

    This is a wildlife site. It os a prowildlife site, and the pro part includes wolves and habitat protection, so people give their opinions, thoughts and ideas. Moderation occurs so it does not turn into a slammfest. This is a site frequented by folks who love the outdoors, and includes hunters. Fisherman, campers, photographers, professionals in the field of wildlife… and people who just enjoy things wild.

    It is not a site for the promotion of deer and elk to feed lot status for the purpose of their harvest. Some people exaggerate to no end. It is exactly this kind of hyperbole and rumor that incites negativity from all sides. This issue continues to be divisive because neither side can maintain rational thought for any length of time. Folks are too busy name calling and exploiting the latest rumor, thus rendering themselves incapable of exercising any opinion that is remotely objective. I too, have a friend employed by IDFG.

    I have no way of knowing, with any accuracy, what the true wolf population is. This sSounds like a less than credible rumor to me — and apparently folks are all too willing to buy it, all the while maintaining their attack on Mr. Gamblin of IDFG for his weak science. I should have been more clearer, someone sent me that comment that came from the mouth of a hunter on a hunting anti wolf page. A hunter made that comment and a wolf advocate showed me that comment. Wolf advocates all know there is nowhere near wolves in Idaho. Idaho has how may elk? Maybe a shade over , On the other hand, I have heard unofficial estimates from reliable sources, of about wolves in ID, which is even supported by extrapolating the testimony of Dr.

    Mech in his Declaration Under Oath in the delisting suits. By this, I am not suggesting I support whittling wolf numbers down to anything below about , or the number in the management plan, even though I have seen dramatic impacts on numbers of elk and their behavior, in the areas I hunt. They are also willing to share the deer and elk with wolves, and have a good understanding of the important roll wolves play in the environment. This is not an anti-hunting site, but unethical hunting is certainly exposed. The Rock himself has called me a liar.

    There are plenty of deer for those who hunt. There are plenty of deer for wolves. It works both ways. I am in no way vilifying everyone here, nor am I protecting anyone there. I guess I was mostly responding to a comment about the wish for more ethical hunters disputing the techniques that have been labeled the norm. Perhaps the antis on either side feel they have the most to lose. The lightning rod is the wolf. Wolves had nothing to fall bac on when bison were killed to starve out the Indians, and market hunting removed everything else.

    There are probably more deer in this country now than when the pilgrims arrived. Nobody understood the multifaceted benefits that wolves provide to even the fragmented ecosystems we now have until recent years. Hunters in particular should be able to understand this. Bottom line is, wolves have folks ready to advocate for them this time around. Many of us believe a hunting season last year would have served as a pressure valve. Others believe that what seems to be coming down the line was going to happen anyway. Madd Meat—excuse me, G. Matt Mead— to call a Special Session to enact this one thing, probably in Cheyenne shortly before or after a UW home football game next door in Laramie.

    But having said that , we could be hunting wolves in Wyoming come January if the Moon stars and planets align over the next Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife winter banquet. Bits are being faunched. The defined mechanism and policy that would enable wolf population reduction in Wyoming are not clear, but it likely will not be pretty. Thus the emotional momentum to eradicate wolves on a somewhat legal, state sanctioned ,olly-olly-oxen-free schutzenfest and trapathon will ramp up quite rapidly in Wyoming.

    It only lasted a few weeks but was the only game in town. My concern bordering on grave apprehension is that once Wyoming opens the gates on state sanctioned wolf hunts, they will lose control of the game. The existing SSS wolfbaiter wolfhater wolf adjudicators will just be red-shifted a little further.

    What was illegal before now being legal—shooting wolves openly— will now push to musketeers further into outlaw territory where they will keep shooting wolves without regard for seasons , limits, and those annoying rules. Why do I say that? And remember, for some reason known only to Ed Bangs and God , Wyoming still has its ridiculous Predator Status where wolves are nuisance vermin in 80 percent of the state. Poaching is already a state pasttime.

    I personally think Bangs made a deal with the Devil to settle the NRM wolf jam , or was told to in no uncertain terms by Pontius Pilate read: Ken Salazar on behalf of Obama cardinals. When the biology and ecology are set against the politics and redneck pragmatics of managing that Flex Zone, it falls apart pretty quickly.

    I think one thing is very clear, there will be a lot of wolf killing going on in the predator zone just like last time it was open. But the fact that the methods used to kill wolves are totally unregulated just seems totally unreasonable. Where are the people who talk about the vaunted North American model of conservation? This is nowhere near consistent with that model. Unfortunately, the open landscape in much of Wyoming particularly the predator zone combined with the apparent interest and lack of regulations you describe is going to leave most of the state scorched earth for wolves.

    In my opinion it goes back to some of the other conversations of culture. The politicians will have to relearn how to speak to the masses. The pendulum occasionally swings between moderate spin and downright shameful spin. Right now I welcome the return of moderate spin. As for the fates of other species we share the planet with, I think there is a lot of things that play into it. Just about everything effects it in some shape or fashion since we are all linked together as passengers here on earth.

    People get upset when people make comments about how man feels he has dominion over the other animals. Well, I am not sure of any other animal on earth that could eradicate every other species if it chose to. As to the question you posed Nancy, their fate is in large part left up to the politicians who are voted into office since they are the ones who make the laws, at least in most countries that care about environmental and animal causes. And like you point out that those people who vote them in or extrapolating here those who get them elected, have agendas as well.

    I am not really sure activist judges are the long term answer either. I do think truthful no spin or screwy statistics being cited conversation from all sides of the issue is important to come to a meaningful compromise of the issues. I guess what I am saying is the answer is in the middle where compromise can occur, not on the extremes.

    When people want to take hindsight decades later and judge and punish people usually long dead and gone for the way they lived their lives in another time, they are not moving forward. No, you can not make everyone happy all at the same time about everything. But the question is how do we get our government to work for the majority of the people again, instead of thinking they are an elite ruling over the majority for the benefit of the financial elite. I feel this blog is part of the process in getting the dialogue flowing, the sharing of ideas, and information.

    Yes, alot of the extreme elements on both sides get on and resort to namecalling, lieing, threatening, etc. What is the result? I feel their agenda or position is weakened by that. At least I know I hold the opinions of people like that in less regard than the others who keep it together. To conclude Nancy, it is up to the Politicians how we go from here, and IMO the majority of the citizens better get ahold of the process to get politicians elected who build consensus and move forward for the longterm benefit of the majority of the people and not just a party or industry.

    Red — not ignoring your comments to my questions! This is my busy time of the year workwise and when I get home…. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Running over a wolf with a snowmobile? If you enjoyed this article, please consider sharing it! August 3, at 7: August 3, at 8: August 3, at 9: ProWolf in WY says: August 3, at August 4, at 8: August 4, at August 4, at 5: August 4, at 1: August 4, at 2: August 4, at 3: August 5, at 5: August 5, at 7: August 5, at 9: August 5, at August 4, at 4: August 4, at 6: August 4, at 7: August 4, at 9: August 7, at August 5, at 1: August 5, at 6: August 6, at 3: They definitely do not oppose it.

    I prefer natural, sustainable products over petrochemicals. One night in March the first disappeared, and then a month or so later the other disappeared. There will never be enough of a just to support this horrifying idustry. First how dare you! Having a dog that is part of the coyote family.

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    They are all have a ancestry connection. Second there is no humane way of killing a being. And over populating, please the human population is becoming over populated. Do you see people being eliminated. They are not being over populated! There are many people that keep warm without having the need to wear fur! Stop trying to find excuses to make yourself feel better. You always know you are dealing with a psychopath when they start comparing the fur trade to rape.

    You are screwed up, lady. I am a contributor to this blog and I enjoy refuting the pathetic arguments from the animal rights activists. Instead of concerning yourself with my social life, maybe you would like to add something of value to the conversation? Or is that too much to ask? Or is that concept a little to advanced for you in light of your barbaric and antiquated views? The concept is not too advanced for us, we simply choose to believe that humans deserve to be treated better than animals.

    Some commenters might be non-vegans who opposite fur industry as well. So glad that so many people speak out against this! Most people that buy those products, buying them either out of ignorance or because it looks nice. You would be lying if you would deny that the vast majority of fur buyers buy and wear it because of fashion reasons. As for the CG topic: I gladly support local businesses and producers and gladly pay more, especially when I receive a good quality product.

    But if I buy one of those, my money would still flow into the cruelty. Not much better than the battery cages for the chickens. Talking about fur farms; a little experience from my childhood: When I grew up, there was a mink farm not too far where we used to live. But there was always that disgusting musky smell. Asked my brothers where that smell came from and they responded that it came from the minks.

    The farm looked basically like any generic fur farm. Then the owner showed up. He was so angry that he released his dog! Released a dog onto a group of children! How brave is that? We hardly made it out of it, since we were close by. Luckily, that farm among many others in germany shut down later on. The whole fur industry is a dirty business and there are far more negative reasons than good ones.

    In those countries there are no laws and animal welfare. Which means the animals suffer even more and often get skinned alive. Sure, fur looks nice, but is it really worth the suffering and death of an animal? Especially when it gets killed just for the fur alone? You think it is weird that a farm smelled bad? ALL farms with animals semml bad. You are upset that a farmer used a dog to scare off trespassers? Keep in mind that fur farmers take trespassing very seriously, as many trespassers are there to release their animals. But anyone who lives somewhere that drops to freezing needs a winter coat.

    Even if it just above freezing, I still need my fur when I am standing in the dog park for an hour, or waiting for the bus. And aside from other animal skins or by-products, there are NO viable alternatives. I have seen info about a lot of jackets that come from recycled water bottles and fishing nets that are diverted from landfill, and they keep you very warm.

    Nor can we argue against those that profit from using and treating animals as nothing more than commodities, instead of the Sentient beings they really are. Of course people who profit from oppression and suffering are going to defend what they do….. What a strangely ignorant article that does not take into the account the wider fur trade and the market that these particular jackets have created — cheapened versions, the feeling that it is ok to wear fur — there might be some sort of argument for a regulated trade but there majority of fur is from unregulated markets in China and Eastern Europe.

    This is a very narrow minded article coming from someone who is clearly unworldly and ill-informed. Canada Goose, or any other Western brand, has done nothing to create cheaper, unregulated fur markets in China and Eastern Europe. The fur trade in these parts of the world has been around for many hundreds of years.

    The fact that China and Russia are the two strongest fur markets today is not because Westerners told them to wear fur. Yes, fur trapping is extremely well regulated in North America, and that is where the coyote fur on Canada Goose parkas — and most commercially-used wild fur — is sourced. Marisa, Not everyone lives in the modern world and may have a square shape not able to fit into your vision of a round peg.

    Unworldly people still have a need to provide for their families sustenance. The majority of the global population do not have the employment and educational opportunities that we have in North America. Notwithstanding that many never felt comfortable in School, possibly having that square peg feeling, but they felt very comfortable in the forests and learned that trapping was an economic opportunity. Beaver, seal and rabbit are also palatable meats that can sustain a body while creating income from the pelt.

    They survived and were introduced to the Fur Trade by caucasians from Europe. Trapping was the first Commercial Opportunity in North America. Now some of the negative commenters here own polyethylene kayaks requiring possible Arctic Oil Drilling for the required feedstock. There have been an estimated I suggest that some natives start a Heritage School building kayaks the self sustainable way, with whale bone and seal skin, that can be auctioned off to the purists with deep pockets.

    Coyotes are closely related to dogs, how can you justify loving one and wearing another? Think about it for one second, what if someone came up and shot your dog. Would you fine with it, even your dog died instantly? They make synthetic fur that is every bit as warm and durable as real fur. Stop trying to justify killing animals so you steal their skin. Thank you for taking the time to express your opinion, Michelle.

    You ask how we can love our dog while wearing coyote fur? In fact, my budgie also likes eating chicken.


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    • Ive always said people who wear real fur are that ugly inside and out they need the skin of another to feel good. But otherwise the site is very well designed. Receiving New Posts and Follow Up comments is great. Michelle F, My first dog had rabbit fur and partridge feathers laying in the yard almost every morning.

      He loved catching his own wild meat. He also would go nose to nose with bears keeping them away from our home. I guess in my planetary location there were Pulp and Paper Mill towns with vast distances in between communities. Guess what kind of products these mills make. Google products made from pulp fibre. You will be shocked, and guess what forest animals are evicted with the Clearcutting of Forests required to feed these hungry mills. They call it Animal Exploitation. If someone came and shot my dog it would be a different story, do you know why?

      My dog does not parade around the place killing other dogs and cats around my neighbourhood. Coyotes are considered pests. Did you know that company makes jackets that are lined inside with rabbit fur and hoods of coyote, and raccoon. Or how about mackage or Rudsak? Some of the companies I just mentioned are made in China. At least this is made in Canada and the materials would be far more regulated than any Chinese factory.

      The choices of others should not affect your life directly whatsoever. And if it does then you should reconsider your life purposes. You could have old yeller carved up and throw his carcass over your shoulder and proudly display your fashion sense. You may like to read this post, in which we explain what we think are the differences between pet dogs and coyotes: Speciesism is alive and well in so many aspects of our lives, and that is not likely to change.

      It is interesting that many opponents of fur have no trouble classifying pigs as food animals, despite the evidence that they are highly intelligent and sentient animals. Thank you for admitting that speciesism is a problem and that the fur industry is an industry that actively participates and promotes speciesism. But like almost everyone, we acknowledge that it exists and is part of our condition.

      That picture of you wearing a dead coyote, while warmly embracing your beloved dog, makes me sick to my stomach.

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      Fur and down is not necessary unless you are in an isolated tribe with no other choice. This goes for all animal materials- leathers, furs, feathers, food. Animal agriculture is the 1 cause of habitat loss and greenhouse gas emissions. If we want to continue sharing this earth with any kind of animals humans or not we need to seriously fix our relationship with all of them.

      You hugging your dog in your down and fur coat is laughable. Before you say it, I have read your article about loving pets vs. The truth is, you can only empathize with those who do you a personal service. Those who give you companionship or endangered animals that you want to be able to keep looking at on TV.

      You only recognize the suffering or death of an animal if it is a loss to yourself. I care about and respect all animals and people- not just the endangered ones or my pets. Realize that it is you that are lacking in this empathy and those of us calling you out on it possess an understanding that you do not- all life is equal and all unnecessary suffering is wrong. Use your gift of human intelligence and empathy. AH, I love the anti-fur person who comes whining about the environment and then suggests synthetic alternatives.

      Emily, do you have any idea what synthetic fabrics are made of? So the fur trade is hardly the major contributor to these problems, if they are actually as you suggest. Actually, yes I do know what synthetic fabrics are made of. Which is now being composed of normally recycled fibers.

      Taking out thousands of coyotes, as this company does, does reduce predators. Now think about the prey. The prey that these coyotes attack, their populations will rise and then every other animal below will decrease and eventually the ecology of this system will reach a point of a positive feedback loop. This event will then cause the eventful loss of every species in the area. But, yes, please tell us how this works. It works like this: But because humans have pushed wolves out of most of their traditional range, coyote populations have exploded…and humans are now the only predator left to control them.

      Your claim about habitat loss is also wrong; in fact, one of the advantages of cattle ranching is that bovines can graze land that is too hilly, arid, cold, rocky or fragile to till for crops — like large parts of the plains of western Canada and the United States where cattle use the ecological niche once occupied by indigenous wild bovines aka bison. Emily, maybe this singer killed by coyotes would love to be hugging possibly a child she dreamed to have. Claiming animal sentience and rights does not cut it in my orbit.

      Oct 28, — A year-old folk singer from Toronto has died after being attacked by two coyotes in Cape Breton Highlands National Park.

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      This is a tough subject for sure. I hate the thought of animals being killed off for fashion. And the wolf and coyote overpopulation is because of human disturbance. And yes, synthetic materials come from big oil corporations, which is not great long term either. What I really take issue with, is that Canada Goose takes credit for helping Canadian native communities.

      This is definitely shaky ground. Mass producing anything from Mother Nature is absolutely against the native way.

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      Manitobah Mukluks are an aboriginal company and they do not use real fur. The leather they use for their products would be from an animal that a tribe member has earned the right to kill, and they would use the entire body of the animal for other purposes. I wonder what Canada Goose does with the bodies of the coyotes? I doubt they use them. They then pray to thank to animal for its life. Colonization has created a big mess. What should Canadians support? Mass production of animals or more big oil? It is too bad we have become a culture of consumers. I really wanted one of these coats at one point but I am put off now.

      I really hope they trapping coyotes humanely. Mass production just seems so wasteful and unnecessary. I do hope we can find a solution. Linds, I could never understand why the generations before us who lived a Subsistence Lifestyle used to cull porcupines. One winter about 2 decades ago i had time to do extensive snowshoeing on a mountain behind my home.

      That means NO birch veneer logs for furniture or lumber. All they would be good for is firewood that emits Particulate to the atmosphere at a level 20 X more than coal fired power plants. Porcupine is eaten by humans and the quills are used by First Nations artisans. Omg…you are just making yourself feel better. I stopped reading your story after your first so called reason for not ditching your dead animal jacket.

      Estelle, wolves were peeing on my basement wall one winter wanting to kill and eat my dog who had a thick long wooly coat. She never liked staying in the house and very rarely in her dog house. Wolves may have eaten her mother as she had vanished. I could only allow her pup outside when i was going outside. In a nearby community an old wolf was eating cats and dogs one winter. Alpha male wolves at some point may lose their position as leader of the wolf pack.

      This leaves them in a position of fending for themselves, so the easy option of moving into a residential area and taking pets is quite viable. Or they may start taking small livestock. When you witness 17 wolves running down a deer, chasing it onto an icy lake your perception of nature has an awakening. And about a hungry wolf taking cats and dogs in a community, you worry about young children playing outside.

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      Sir you are the most stupidist and abonominal low of a being. I hope ur dog fur jacket keeps u n ur dog safe while on the other end of the world south of bejing China is a shit fest for the meat trade and the by product of the fur. U r a disgrace to man kind if u think like this. People like us will be happy open our arms to u.. You are judging peoples choice of diet and clothing. This is a form of Food Racism. You can continue to believe in your Cruelty Free Diet while the farm tractor tilling the croplands mangles moles, voles, lizards, gophers, rabbits, deer etc. Have you ever watched the Carrion Cleanup Crew following farm equipment tilling and harvesting their crops?

      It is inhuman to justify your own laziness and ignorance in wearing a trapped animals fur with false acusations like coyote overpopulation and what not. These animals are just out there doing there thing. We need to do ours better, we are the overpopulation problem to them.

      Thanks for the reality and justification of a very gray area. Better yet, what about a Labrador Retriever toupe? Loved this article have been trying to get your point across on their website for ages. Thank you so much for this article. Rayon and Bamboo require the Clearcutting of Forests evicting forest critters. They would never consider all the Air, Water and destruction of forest lands for these two fabrics.

      Humans are animals, and we act as animals, hunt for food and hunt to stay warm. Taking down greater animals that would attack and kill and also protecting our own kind. In times have changed greatly, we have advanced and there are so many other ways we can stay warm.. How would that make you feel. No life is greater then another. Put yourself or even your dog in that coyotes position, he has the same senses you have, fear, stress, anxiety and can you imagine being trapped and someone handling you in humanely. I can understand that we do need to survive, just like other animals do.

      I always look at both sides of a story here and I am hoping you can see differently soon like i did. Deer have become feral in some areas, recently in the US 8 Million deer were killed by hunters. Reason would stand that if 8 million deer were not hunted vehicle collisions would be at much higher numbers. The Feral Hog problem in Agricultural Areas where they destroy crops is another issue.

      Thank God there are Omnivores that eat wild meat. They are also aggressive towards humans and pose safety issues for children in rural areas. Ian, your emotions have been affected by your acceptance of sentience and animal rights. Some advocates of these beliefs feel they have evolved spiritually above lessor beings who are quite happy living their inherited omnivorous lifestyle making full use of all the By-Products from living animals, e.

      Using wool is also a No no and the belief that eating honey is animal exploitation, when the Money from Honey subsidizes the Pollination of the Plant Based Diet that you may follow. That way you can memorialize him forever and actually support all the beauty nature provides. Dog fur keeps dogs warm, it will keep you warm as well. Its dangerous to support companies that mass produce items that use fur. Finally — you will continue defending yourself. The company does all the dirty work and presents you a gorgeous warm coat. Because, the truth is — that coyote fur is not imperative to your survival.

      This is merely a fashion decision. I actually have a Canada Goose jacket. And I bought it because I thought the fur looked really nice and stood out from all the other coats out there. I still have it. I wish I was more informed 10 yrs ago when I bought it. I will never support the fur industry anymore. This is one of those things that we will look back on decades from now and think wow how were we so stupid. I think you might actually be the definition of hypocrite. Alexandra, I was illustrating that I had bought one of those coats 10 yrs ago when I knew less about how the coats were made.

      I was illustrating that I had bought the coat because of a fashion decision and therefore showing that those who are ill informed today are likely making their purchase for the same decision. Check it out here: Why should an animal suffer just because truly ugly people want to wear their skin. If you wish to comment in future, please be polite. Hopefully you will find time to read several posts on our blog presenting our views on synthetic clothing. How your clothes are poisoning our oceans and food supply … https: Inside the lonely fight against the biggest environmental problem you … https: Jun 20, — He then ran a polyester fleece jacket through the wash and filtered 1, … and research is underway to find out how the plastics affect humans.

      I like how this guy is wearing fur and hugging a dog at the same time. Would you wear a coat made from your dog? He loves his dog. Why would he kill his dog for its fur when he can use fur from a coyote instead? You just proved the point. You live in a bubble. We most certainly are animals, which is why we can and must depend on nature like other animals do. We are part of that system — like other animals — but the difference is that we can control and improve our actions to ensure that we are using animals in a sustainable and humane way.

      The responsible and sustainable use of nature is the keystone of modern conservation policy, as promoted by the IUCN. I am really annoyed by the Bambi Sympathetics that feel it is their duty to feed wild deer, who then rise in feral numbers. Then they complain to Wildlife Management when a wolf pack kills deer in their yard. The Faux Fur they boast of here is derived from petroleum products. They are void of any capability of Critical Thinking, of what the costs are to the environment and those animals evicted in the Oil Extraction, Pipeline Corridors etc.

      They allow their emotions to be held hostage with no thought as to the damaged land, pollution, Carbon use necessary for their favoured synthetic fabrics. There are other ways to stay warm, rather than wearing a product that came from a murdered animal. Of course there are other ways to keep warm, but none is more ecologically sustainable — or as beautiful — as fur. Well, scientific research into gender differences in our ability to empathise certainly does place women above men.

      Men, meanwhile, have been cast in the role of providers of food including meat and raw materials for clothing including fur. Perhaps it has been to the evolutionary advantage of humans that men be able to suppress their empathy for animals, otherwise early humans would have starved or frozen to death.

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      Oh dear God, some poor lost soul who actually thinks that evolutionary psychology is somehow respected by mainstream scientists. I feel sorry for you. Myron, I would love a Bison Robe as a bed covering. Maybe i could turn the thermostat down to save on fossil fuel heat. They were happy heating their Igloo with a whale oil lamp cuddled up in their furs. They were doing very well on their meat centric diet and used everything from the animals for their sustenance and warmth. Why is it that heart disease is almost non-existent in the Arctic, Greenland and Icelandic peoples? Envision this Myron, if the Bison had not been exterminated, we could forage, fish and hunt without our menial job, and wait for the massive herd of Bison to come thundering by, take what we need to sustain us through the winter months, including fur robes instead of Poly-fleece Dacron hollow-fill sleeping bags.

      Use a horse the Spaniards brought to the shores of North America and have a grand old time. We would not have to worry about those Pipeline Right of Ways cutting up our Prairie Grasslands, but then you would only approve of synthetic Oil Based sleeping gear, Right? And all the wild meats, beaver, elk, moose, deer, rabbit, squirrel etc. What are you talking about? Wars are also caused by women. Harish, New York University]. That said, being a man or woman has nothing to do with being more or less violent or empathetic.

      If anything, the author simply sees things from a more rational point of view when it comes to utilization of fur.

      Backlash II: More Tales Told by Hunters, Fishermen and Other Damned Liars Backlash II: More Tales Told by Hunters, Fishermen and Other Damned Liars
      Backlash II: More Tales Told by Hunters, Fishermen and Other Damned Liars Backlash II: More Tales Told by Hunters, Fishermen and Other Damned Liars
      Backlash II: More Tales Told by Hunters, Fishermen and Other Damned Liars Backlash II: More Tales Told by Hunters, Fishermen and Other Damned Liars
      Backlash II: More Tales Told by Hunters, Fishermen and Other Damned Liars Backlash II: More Tales Told by Hunters, Fishermen and Other Damned Liars
      Backlash II: More Tales Told by Hunters, Fishermen and Other Damned Liars Backlash II: More Tales Told by Hunters, Fishermen and Other Damned Liars
      Backlash II: More Tales Told by Hunters, Fishermen and Other Damned Liars Backlash II: More Tales Told by Hunters, Fishermen and Other Damned Liars
      Backlash II: More Tales Told by Hunters, Fishermen and Other Damned Liars Backlash II: More Tales Told by Hunters, Fishermen and Other Damned Liars

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